I hope this is the right place to post (not sure if this should be in the classic or general wrestling section), but it would be cool to talk about the female side of the wrestling biz (which im a huge fan of), can range from Joshi to American pro wrestling. Im hoping to catch more Joshi in japan very soon and should get to see the beautiful Mariko Yoshida live in person this time around, for me, nothing can beat the great japanese ladies at the sport, but there is many great talents in the USA to from Nattie Neidhart, Amazing Kong, Mis Cheif ect.
What are your thoughts on womens pro wrestling? is the WWE style enjoyable for you, how would you improve it or does womans wrestling not appeal to you? Who were and are your faverate wrestlers past or present? Lets talk about the female side of the sport here.
The thing id like to start with is the quality of the womens division in the WWE right now, as i have said in other forums, i havent really taken to much notice of the shows recently, but Candice is said to be doing well, which is quite surprising because she doesnt look at all like she could get used to the buisness or take bumps ect ect, yet Ashley who seemed to have a lot of passion and will to learn is utterly awful. Your thoughts :).
Yeah it was my great regret that just days before I left for Japan last time, dreaming of finally seeing Mariko Yoshida wrestle, front row tickets ready...she broke her nose and had to pull out...she was replaced by Cherry though which was a consolation! So, not for the first time, Im green with envy Benoit! Im sure it will be a a thrill to see her compete.
Ayumi Kurihara is another on my list I still wanna see...
The WWE scene is a whole diiferent world, Im not fond of the general diva thing, though Im fond of Kristal who I think is wasted in this Teddy Long romance stuff.
I miss Molly Holly...if they could find the right gimmick for her, it would be great to see her back...I treasure my Molly Holly signed pic she sent me.
Iv seen that show and its quite decent, its great to see Sanoko Kato back after a lenth absence from injury, im a big fan of her work in the ring.The tag match is great, i love Yuki Miyazaki so anything shes in i love really ^^ but i dont really enjoy oz academy to be honest. Glowlad, im sure youll get to see more Joshi when you go back to Japan ^^, i cant wait myself, whatever shows will be on, ill be going for sure when im back soon! Molly was great, quite surprised she hasent gone over to Japan to compete actually.
Im surprised to hear that Mib. She has so much to offer the buisness still so its quite sad she has retired but its nice shes doing such a worthwhile thing.Good luck to her, for me, along with gail kim, the most gorgeous WWE diva since the term "diva" became the norm in the company. Im currently watching some Mexican womens wrestling, and have watched "Reina de Reinas" tournement from a couple of years back, highley enjoyable though a tad repatitive.Lady Apache and Martha Viliabos are great, but my all time fave is Lady Rabbit. Azumi Hyuga made an appearence there to which was great, so I would recomend the Ladies Lucha to anyone, some great stuff there in womens action.
Havent seen that show MiB, though I did catch an OZ academy show in Tokyo last year.
About Molly, I always thought it was odd the King would always run down her looks in comparisson to her foes, yet for me she had a different but better look than most divas...In particular though she was STUNNING with short cropped hair in the months after losing the hair v hair match...
Molly was my favourite Diva ever even when she was Molly Holly with the blonde pigtails. I agree that she stood out from the other Divas because she wasn't a stick thin, surgically enhanced barbie doll and she was a great wrestler to boot.
I made these banners of her a few years back:
I must confess I nearly cried when she had her hair shaved though...
Did you know that the real reason she left WWE was because she thought she had breast cancer? It gave her such a scare seeing as her mother had already been through it that she decided to take time off in case it was serious (it wasn't) and re-evaluate her life.
You didnt find her attractive when she was bald? wow, i actually thought she looked great! It sucks she isnt there anymore, but if the reason you said is true then its good that she got out when she did, though i heard things about her wanting to become a face again, but WWE wouldnt have it, and would insist on insulting her weight when clearly she wasent fat at all, ill always hate the angle with her and the likes of Trish insulting her. Cant believe what anyone sees in Trish myself, Nora is far far more beautiful then she ever will be.
Terrific banners of Molly! Classy lady, unique beauty. Seconded.She was always to good for WWE in my eyes, very very classy lady with a bright future in anything she does.Just to bad shes given up on wrestling at such a young age.Love the Banners Mib!
Seriously, great job on the banners Mib, everyone of them is great. I particulary like the last one with Nora being bald, she looks stunning even without hair! One thing i have to say is she has a very very attractive shape, not like those stick insects in WWE and even like a lot of oriental women who are so thin, she is truly beautiful! Ah...come back Nora, i miss you ^^..
Did you guys see FMW on TWC last night? They showed a No Rope Exploding Barbed Wire Death Match between Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda. Brutal!! Even Onita who was watching at ringside was in tears by the end of it.
Yep i saw that MIB, iv got that one on dvd and its quite a good match, but to be honest, Death Matches are not things i enjoy, so i dont like to watch them to often, espicially with females, its just..not right for me.While its fun to see 2 guys blow and beat the hell out of each other, i dont seem to enjoy 2 women doing the same thing (not because i think they are bad or poor at the style of match,they are certainly very good and incredibly tough, but i dont think its actually very nice to see the opposite sex destroy each other in such a way), but kudos to them, they had a heck of match.I remember (i think anyway)seeing one with Cooga and Shark Tsuchiya some years back, which was better then yesterdays though.
Ive not seen much of Megumi Kudo before, she look very taltented, kawaii too...anyone now more about her...hers is a name Ive heard a lot, without seeing much of her in action.
Megumi Kudo was a very talented girl, hence why shes held the WWWA title 6 times in her career, mostly she competed in FMW and in hardcore matches, her last match being against Shark Tsuchiya, shes now retired and married to a fellow wrestler. She had a fued with Sumi Sakai a while back, and was pretty decent in the ring, she was actually a teacher before she began wrestling which is quite surprising!
I just wish Vince Mcmahon would see sense and hire some Joshi girls...of course you'd have to give them charismatic managers to help them get over initially, but then there huge in-ring talents would do the rest.
But what hope is there for the womens division when huge mistakes are made in the mens division too...
For example the push the Great Khali has been getting...this guy is really tall, and THAT is the sum total of his talents. NOTHING else.
Its an example of an instance when we really COULD do a better job.
To be honest Glowlad, as i may have mentioned in the TWC forums, WWE had Joshi wrestlers in the past, apart from Bull Nakano, they were seriously misused and made to look weak, all of the Joshi girls who competed in the company (even Aja Kong) werent to pleased with how they where booked during the Survivor Series and on Raw a few times, aja talked about it through a blog some time back and it wasent a great experiance for them. Since then, WWE have decided for women to work for their company, all they need is big breasts and being stick insects, no need for any skill or talent in ring.
I dont know how people rate Trish, she was never that great looking nor that good in ring.As much as the womens division needs a boost with some REAL talent from Japan, i think its better that no Joshi girl even considers coming to the company, because no doubt vince would have them job out and look weak (and no way would they be allowed to wrestler their style in the company) or try to get them to have all kinds of surgery on themselves to look like a proper "WWE" style diva. Amazing Kong would be awesome but then shes "Big" and no doubt theyd stick her with a gimmick that makes fun of her weight with the other divas insulting her to, but for me, she is far more beautiful then the divas thay have, as crazy as it sounds! Nope Joshi girls should never go into such a company.
To be honest Glowlad, as i may have mentioned in the TWC forums, WWE had Joshi wrestlers in the past, apart from Bull Nakano, they were seriously misused and made to look weak, all of the Joshi girls who competed in the company (even Aja Kong) werent to pleased with how they where booked during the Survivor Series and on Raw a few times, aja talked about it through a blog some time back and it wasent a great experiance for them. Since then, WWE have decided for women to work for their company, all they need is big breasts and being stick insects, no need for any skill or talent in ring.
I dont know how people rate Trish, she was never that great looking nor that good in ring.As much as the womens division needs a boost with some REAL talent from Japan, i think its better that no Joshi girl even considers coming to the company, because no doubt vince would have them job out and look weak (and no way would they be allowed to wrestler their style in the company) or try to get them to have all kinds of surgery on themselves to look like a proper "WWE" style diva. Amazing Kong would be awesome but then shes "Big" and no doubt theyd stick her with a gimmick that makes fun of her weight with the other divas insulting her to, but for me, she is far more beautiful then the divas thay have, as crazy as it sounds! Nope Joshi girls should never go into such a company.
I remember being filled with anticipation for that Joshi survivors series match, which turned to horror as many wrestlers were eliminated after barely putting two moves together...Vince must have known that given time to show what they couls do, they'd put most of the men in the WWF to shame.
They often have independant shows here in the UK, wish I could win the lottery and bring some Joshi women to put on shows here in Britain...til then, Japan it is!
me to, though i was only about 13 at the time of the 1995 survivors, i really looked forward to seeing them in action. Looking at the match now, Lioness Asuka gets beat in 70 seconds, then the lovely Sakie Hasigawa gets about 2 suplex's in before being ousted, Chapparita was next, the worse was Kyoko Inoue, who got in just 2 clotheslines before being sent packing, just an awful mess to be honest. Im sure vince knew if they were allowed to go out and do what they usually did in japan, that would have no doubt been one of the greatest matches in the history of the SS ppv, noone in the company at the time bar Hakushi (another wasted talent) and possibley Davey boy smith, were on the same level as any of those girls i think. But they all looked weak, pathetically weak.I wouldnt want Japanese women to come here either, lets just go and enjoy them in japan eh Glowlad? ^^
From what I read about Megumi Kudo, she had a lot of heat from the other Joshi workers who felt she was being pushed because of her looks and not for her talent. She also did a couple of nude photobooks which exacerbated the situation. This is why she went to FMW and did all those hardcore death matches to prove she was worthy and as dedicated to wrestling as the others.
Benoit - I think you're way too harsh on Trish although obviously it is subjective. I wont deny that she was hot but she didn't rely on her looks either, and applied herself to improving as a wrestler and became a great all round performer be it face or heel. After Molly and Jazz left it was Trish who was the one who carried the division (again) and was the only one to consistantly have decent matches - so much so that even Meltzer rated the recent Melina vs Mickie PPV match as "the best match since Stratus left".
Whether you like her or not, Trish's contribution to the WWE women's division from late 2001-2006 was as immeasurable and as important as Moolah's.
As for why Joshi women won't get a shot at WWE - the first caveat is the language barrier, which is also the same reason why Puro men won't get a shot. Also, the style of wrestling is different and since most Diva matches only last 3 minutes, the Joshi girls would find it hard to compact their usual work into such a short time. Not only that but Joshi girls make up a whole promotion whereas in WWE they'd be restricted to just one macth a week so their import to the product is lessened. Finally, as pointed out, Vince would probably give them all geisha gimmicks or something equally racist and stereotyped.
You can dream for Joshi wrestlers in WWE but don't hold your breath.
I do respect Trish for what shes done of course MIB, and i do admit she actually has had some good matches in the company, but its ludicrus to say she is one of the best female wrestlers EVER which iv heard from quite a few places i write in, but kudos to her for actually improving her in ring work while many of the other divas past and present couldnt be bothered with that side of it.I think now she's gone, it gives the other divas a chance to impress so its a good thing in the way as the division had been stale with her being always at the top.
Joshi and WWE dont mix at all, thankfully as you said MIB and as i had mentioned before. The worlds are far to different.Sakura Hirota had an interview some time back and was asked about if she was asked, would she join the WWE, she answered something like while she does watch it (and shes a big fan of edge), she would never want to be seen dead dressed like a lot of the girls in the company and she loves to be seen as a proper wrestler, though obviously she has her wacky side.Satamura and Nagashima also poured scorn on the product WWE produces to, even Takako Inoue refused to work there when i heard about the companies intrest in her a few years back, she being quite a pin up herself, she was quoted in saying something around that she doesnt want to be seen as a bimbo, just a wrestler, so most of the Joshi girls iv read things from have no intrest in it, however Ayako Hamada was rumoured to be trying to get a job in the company sometime ago.
Well not wishing to labour this point but I don't think it is ludicrous to place Trish very highly in the US women's rankings at all. Perhaps in an all time list that includes ALL female talent which puts her against some Joshi wrestlers she wouldn't be considered so highly but overall I feel Trish has earned her spot.
Trish not only improved in the ring and had a pretty good moveset but she also got to understand the psychology of the game and could pull the crowd into her matches without stripping off. Personally, I would say Trish at least deserves to be in the Top 20 all time women's wrestlers on a worldwide scale and definitely a Top 10 or even Top 5 performer in US rankings.
Fair points there Mib but i wouldnt myself, put her in the upper tier of the best female wrestlers in the world of all time,not even close to the top 20 actually, perhaps in the USA she could be, but i would rate the likes of Reggie Bennit, Debbie Malenko, Medusa Micelli and Wendy Richter ahead of her when it comes to it, all 4 of those girls not only had a great success in the US but could do it abroad, i think if trish took her style to Japan,Mexico ect, she would struggle, i could be wrong though. But over the last 5 or so years, shes up there, but of all time, certainly no way near close to being one of the best in my opinion.
WWE quietly released Beth Phoenix from her contract early last week. She was told that creative had nothing for her.
Behind the scenes, Stephanie McMahon, was never a fan of her. She felt as though that she didn't have the "WWE Diva look" due to her inherit bulkiness.
--WrestlingObserve
Sorry to double post but dammit this is wrong, Beth was great, and i thought she was quite attractive myself, a great talent and looks like good old steph has got rid of another attractive and talented woman. Beth was not "bulky" either.What utter nonsense.I can see Nikita being axed next..
I assume "Inherit bulkiness" is code for not looking permenantly anorexic like most of the other Divas and actually looking like a regular, healthy looking woman? And besides, Beth has been part of this angle with Jacob Duncan in OVW so she is a women who actually has a programme there, which makes it even more of a waste.
I suppose it's too much to ask that Steph makes a decision for the good of the business and not her own ignorant ego...
I hate her with a passion. She needs to be strapped to the side of a rocket that is to be fired directly into the sun.
I've gotten swamped with emails in regards to an internet rumour that I was released early this week....it is totally false. I am saddened at the news of the other WWE releases but even more that my name was brought into the mix. I've worked my whole life towards becoming a WWE Diva. The beautiful thing about the Divas is that they are strong, beautiful, and individual. I love my job with all my heart and I'm so very proud to have the opportunity to represent the company I've been in love with my entire life. Although I don't have to answer to or respond to the internet rumors that constantly come my way, I do owe the fans that have supported me over the past 7 years of my life. Yes I am still very much employed by WWE and working hard in OVW to one day return to WWE television and live my dream once again. Our business is all about patience and taking the good with the bad. If nothing else, you can be sure when you see Beth Phoenix, you will get 110% from me...everything in my heart.
All my love,
-Beth
Agree with you 100% there MIB, Beth gave everything to work for the company and i really thought she would have been a great success, unfortunaly now steph is in power, things are going to get a lot worse, Ariel, Beth, Angel, 3 very talented girls who would have added to the WWE womens division given the chance but because steph "doesnt like them" they have to go. I cant really see to much of a future for Nattie Neidhard, Nikita, any other women who can actually wrestle or actually look differently to what the company already has. Steph really needs to bugger off somewhere, she has no clue about anything.
Just edited here but looks like beth may still be employed by the WWE, i sure hope so!
For once I hope this is a false rumour but you never know with WWE, especially now that Grade A dunderhead Steph is pulling more strings within the company...
that is sad news Glowlad :(, i hope it doesnt close down just yet so i can catch one more show in a few months, the girls are lovely, and im sure theyll succeed in joshi or whatever else they want to do after.
Apologies for double posting (I wish the edit feature would stay perminant!), just been talking to a few friends and in september we will try to take in quite a lot of Joshi shows which i cant wait (tickets for the best seats are always around 5000yen so 25 quid for a good seat at Joshi is great!),Hoping to see more Neo, more Sendai and others. Hopefully Yuki Miyazaki remembers me, i absoloutley am in love with her ^^ (very very sweet girl she is).Im also hoping to try get to see Meiko Satamura to in person! Man i would love to spend some time with her.A friend of mine is a huge fan of joshi and shes been to many a womens show along and mens shows to, visiting NOAH and Big Japan shows often so she is crazy about wrestling, shes met quite a few stars to (Kenta,Manami Toyota,Ofune,Hard gay ect, lucky girl!) so i hope she can take me along to see some espicially Meiko...ah..i love her.
Gaea used to be huge in Japan where, alot like male wrestling in Mexico, it was actually viewed as a real sport. Unfortunatley, the company has suffered a bit of a decline in recent years.
If you could get hold of a documentary film, called Gaea girls I strongly recommend that. It follows a young trainee trying to pass the test to become a Gaea girl and its a truly gripping watch.
thornton15 wrote:Unfortunatley, the company has suffered a bit of a decline in recent years.
You could say that, considering GAEA shut down last year after celebrating it's 10th anniversary. While there are a few Joshi promotions still active in Japan, only Oz Academy (run by Mayumi Ozaki) and Sendai (run by Meiko Satomura) keep the GAEA spirit and wrestling style alive.
I agree though that he GAEA Girls film is a must see for any wrestling fan let alone Joshi fan. I think that dropkick scene will live in infamy for all eternity. i still wince whenever I see it.
Gaea girls is fantastic and Saika Takuchi was the trainee i believe,she did a great job but she retired some time back, Gaea closed their doors a few years back now which is a real shame since it was an awesome promotion with some of the finest womens wrestlers in the world. Now Im hoping it will be on the rise again, Sendai is great, as is Neo and Jd.
SENDAI GIRLS, 07.04.2007 Zepp Sendai 700 Fans - Super No Vacancy Full House
1. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Toshie Uematsu vs. Dynamite Kansai
2. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Manami Toyota vs. Chisako Kanari
3. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1:Mayumi Ozaki vs. Devil Masami
4. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Tsubasa Kuragaki vs. Meiko Satomura
SENDAI GIRLS, 08.04.2007 Zepp Sendai 600 Fans - No Vacancy
5. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Mizuki Endo vs. KAORU
6. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Ayako Hamada vs. Yurie Kaneko
7. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Sachiko Kanari vs. Akari Okuda
8. Battlefield WAR Tournament - Round 1: Kyoko Kimura vs. Aja Kong
A bit of an all star line up there with Toyota, Kansai, Satomura, Masami, Kong, KAURO, Uematsu, Ozaki, Hamada...The only name that is missing for me is Nagashima and it's pretty much a GAEA show.
If your account with that site I invited you to is still active then you can downlaod it now. There is also an OZ Academy show and a NEO show that has just been uplaoded too.
Thanks Mib, sorry about not using it, as i may have said a while back, iv seen most of whats there (a lot of the newer stuff of Joshi i get through my own secret way), but ill try and download the shows above and others.
OZ Academy "NEW DIMENSION TOUR 2007", 04.05.2007 Osaka Delfin Arena 330 Fans - Super No Vacancy
1. OZ Academy Osaka Opening Special Match: Ran Yu-Yu vs. Chikayo Nagashima
2. Osaka Pro Offer Match: Tigers Mask & Kuishinbo Kamen vs. Daisuke Harada & Miracle Man
3. 2/3 Falls Match: Carlos Amano vs. GAMI
4. Aja Kong & Mayumi Ozaki vs. Sonoko Kato & Dynamite Kansai
5. Mayumi Ozaki, Aja Kong, GAMI & Ran Yu-Yu vs. Dynamite Kansai, Chikayo Nagashima, Carlos Amano & Sonoko Kato
BTW - I had a quick look at the Sendai show. Manami Toyota is starting to lok her age of 36; Ayako Hamada has put on a lot of weight; and KAROU looks fab for a forty plus year old but sadly she broke her arm hitting a Moonsault off the turnbuckles to the floor when she landed badly on her arm which bent back at the elbow. Ouch!
I still think Manami is a very beautiful lady Mib and Ayako Hamada gorgeous as ever (i dont think she has put on all that much myself), but shes not been all that great in the ring over the last couple of years which is a shame as she was awesome a few years back. Manami is past her best now but she still is capable of having good matches :).Karou on the other hand, i never knew she was 40 plus...Amazing. A nice looking show that Oz Academy one.Sonoko Kato is very underrated, shes been out for quite a while with injury but has came back and been pretty good. At the moment im watching mostly Neo stuff i get, some Sendai, some Jd, but not much of Oz Academy.I dont have much time to watch full shows so usually i just watch a couple of matches here and there, espicially Kyoko Kimuras because i adore that girl ^^.
Well, Hamada has a bit of a belly on her now and her face is definitely fatter than it was, whereas before she had a very defined facial features.
I wasn't mocking Toyota, I was just saying that after years of looking younger than she was she is starting to look her age now.
I recall that Mo Chatra on TWC said in one of his intros from a GAEA show from 2001 that KAORU was 36 at the time and that ws 6 years ago which would make her 42 now. but she doesn't look it at all.
Of course i know your not mocking Manami Toyota there ^^, i think shes gorgeous myself, certainly one of the most attract 36 year olds iv seen. Its pretty natural she is looking her age, but again i think shes very attractive.As for Ayako, i think she is really cute, more so then before actually, while maybe she is a bit more plump, she still is far more lovely then any WWE diva i know.Still it shouldnt matter how they lool, both are wonderful wrestlers and its a joy to watch them both ^-^.
Would love to go there but busy preparing for a certain trip back to Japan at the end of July ;) so hopefully ill catch her in Japan.The girls are stunning in person so cant wait to see some more joshi.
Iv been watching a few shows recently, a couple of late 2006 shows from Neo, a fun battle royal which involved Manami toyota and Yuki Miyazaki being elimanated from the match by submitting to DJ nira shoving his privats into the poor girls face! Great stuff, i have a couple fo Sendai shows to watch soon which i will do, the one you have above iv not seen yet Mib but ill take my time :). Im going to watch some LLPW tonight and an elimanation match with Shinobu Kandori and Eagle Sawai involved and with those 2, you know its going to be pretty wild ^-^.
Just a heads up but the next two instalments of FMW on TWCF are Joshi only shows.
Tomorow night at 23.00pm:
Sub Miss Sato vs. Kaori Nakayama Bad Nurse Nakamura vs. Yukari Ishikura Tetsuhiro Kuroda vs. Katsutoshi Niyama Combat Toyoda & Bison Kimura vs. Megumi Kudo & Ajya
Next Saturday June 30th at 23.00pm:
Chikayo Nagashima & Chihiro Nakano vs. Aki Kanbayashi & Sonoko Kato Bomber Hikaru vs. Sub Miss Sato Motaya & Hotaru vs. Kaori Nakayama & Yukari Ishikura Bad Nurse Nakamura vs. Chigusa Nagayo Kaoru vs. Combat Toyoda