UFC 81 - Breaking Point

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

UFC 81 - Breaking Point

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

RE: UFC 81

David McKinney · 500 Club Member

UFC 81 - Breaking Point

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

Wonder what will happen with CC in 08 and Arlovski too, they should put those two in a match together, that would Rock.

David McKinney · 500 Club Member

That WOULD rock. There was some talk that AA was thinking about moving to another org when his UFC contract is up (as he was present at the HDNet event 2 weekends ago), but he now says that he is trying to work out a contract with the UFC to fight some time early in 2008. I think that this fight would be a great addition to the 82 card in Columbus!

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

AS UFC 81 approaches...

Weirdly enough WWE.com have a poll saying will brock win on saturday yes or no. I didn't think they liked him anymore? Maybe Vince and Dana did a deal..

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

All 18 fighters slated to take part in tomorrows UFC 81 event today made weight. The fighters hit the scales at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas the same venue that hosts tomorrows pay-per-view event.

The weigh-ins were streamed live online by Yahoo! Sports, a content-partner site of MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).

All fighters were allowed a one-pound cushion except for Tim Sylvia and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, who fight for the UFCs interim heavyweight title in tomorrows main event. The fighters had to weigh in at no more than 265 lbs.; Sylvia weighed in at 261 lbs., and Nogeuira tipped the scales at 237 lbs.

One other heavyweight bout has received a lot of attention during the lead-up to UFC 81, thanks largely to the UFC debut of WWE-performer turned NFL-player turned MMA-fighter Brock Lesnar. Lesnar today weighed 265 lbs., and his opponent former UFC heavyweight champion Frank Mir was a svelte 255 lbs.

The full weigh-in results included:

* Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (237) vs. Tim Sylvia (261)
* Brock Lesnar (265) vs. Frank Mir (255)
* Jeremy Horn (185) vs. Nate Marquardt (185)
* Ricardo Almeida (185) vs. Rob Yundt (185)
* Tyson Griffin (155) vs. Gleison Tibau (156)
* Kyle Bradley (170) vs. Chris Lytle (170)
* Tim Boetsch (205) vs. David Heath (205)
* Marvin Eastman (185) vs. Terry Martin (186)
* Rob Emerson (155) vs. Keita Nakamura (155)

Join MMAjunkie.com tomorrow for live round-by-round updates and live results from tomorrows UFC 81 preliminary and main cards. The results will begin at approximately 8:15 p.m. ET/5:15 p.m. PT.

(NOTE: Theres been a lot of talk lately that the UFC may have banned Affliction-branded clothing. However, Tyson Griffin was seen wearing an Affliction T-shirt on his way to the scales at todays weigh-ins.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Plus heres a video from the press conference gotta love Dana and his cheap shots...

HERE

-- Edited by Darth Mattitude at 14:00, 2008-02-02

Man In Black · Anime Mod

More on Lesnar being booed at the weigh ins from wo.com:

UFC fans say "Boo-urns" to Lesnar!

David McKinney · 500 Club Member

McKinney's Complete Breakdown of UFC 81

Any thoughts?

UFC 82 is up next, which is in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio. There was some talk that I might be covering this event for CPC Movies, but I haven't talked to DM about it in awhile. Also, the new (February) edition of McKinney on MMA should be up soon, as I sent the column to DM a few weeks ago. It's a 2008 preview.

Man In Black · Anime Mod

I watched the Lesnar vs Mir fight last night and the first thing that struck me was how they made a mockery of Lesnar's WWE past. They kept saying that you think of him as "an actor in a movie" and that he was "fighting for real this time". Then they were happy to put Angle, Taker and Austin over for a good pop.

Anyway, to the fight and while I know jack about MMA I thought Lesnar looked like a monster and dominated the fight. It was only that he left his leg open for the take down into the submission that was the flaw. Despite the loss he made a strong account for himself.

For the experts here - should they have given Lesnar a "lesser" opponent for his UFC debut rather than a former heavyweight champ? Build Lesnar up then bring in the big guns. Obviously they were hoping Lesnar would draw hence the big name fight here but I would assume that Lesnar will be given "jobbers" form now on?

Totoro101 · Movie Executive Producer

Im in the same boat as you Mib.The only MMA/mixed martial arts iv seen is a couple of Japanese Smackgirl shows and K1 fights.UFC isnt my kind and though iv seen a few matches,it actually seems a little boring for me anyway.I saw the Lesnar and Mir fight and Lesner did look pretty good offensivly but he cant defend at all and he paid the price.Some of his punches looked quite bad though.Sadly a lot of UFC fanatics are mocking his past as a WWE wrestler shouting out how fake and how rubbish he is and its a real fight ect ect.The usual mocking of pro wrestlers.

-- Edited by Totoro101 at 09:06, 2008-02-04

Lucky Pierre · On The Casting Couch

Man In Black wrote:

I watched the Lesnar vs Mir fight last night and the first thing that struck me was how they made a mockery of Lesnar's WWE past. They kept saying that you think of him as "an actor in a movie" and that he was "fighting for real this time". Then they were happy to put Angle, Taker and Austin over for a good pop.

Anyway, to the fight and while I know jack about MMA I thought Lesnar looked like a monster and dominated the fight. It was only that he left his leg open for the take down into the submission that was the flaw. Despite the loss he made a strong account for himself.

For the experts here - should they have given Lesnar a "lesser" opponent for his UFC debut rather than a former heavyweight champ? Build Lesnar up then bring in the big guns. Obviously they were hoping Lesnar would draw hence the big name fight here but I would assume that Lesnar will be given "jobbers" form now on?

To be fair to the commentators, they were bigging Brock up for actually stepping up, Joe Rogan said "You can't think of him as an actor in a movie" so to me they were "Putting Brock over" to use a wrestling term.

I was surprised to see him going up against Mir so early on but in retrospect it's a win win situation, not only would it have done great guns on the buyrate but Mir is back to being a legit contender in the HW division and Brock has announced himself as a genuine MMA fighter.

Brock made a schoolboy error and Mir punished him for it, I agree about MMA fans, they really get on my nerves but going by the reception Brock got after the fight, I'd say his performance and grace in defeat won a large percentage over. The thing about MMA is you can't go by someones win loss record when determining how good they are, rather go by who they lost to. Brock will be back establishing himself in the division. He needs to work on his submission defence and I'm sure he will as his power was incredible, even Mir noted that.

-- Edited by Lucky Pierre at 09:26, 2008-02-04

David McKinney · 500 Club Member

OK, here are my thoughts on the Brock thing, relating to some of what you guys have said. First of all, I've always been a big fan of Brock. But here's the thing: I think the fans were trying to concentrate on his WWE days while the announcers were pushing his amateur wrestling background like crazy (most of the top MMA fighters actually come from a wrestling background).

I don't think that anybody was trying to make fun of Brock or make fun of wrestling. I think that people thought that would happen and are just responding to a predetermined outcome (no pun intended, wrestling fans).

Brock is a helluva talent. I haven't seen anybody with that kind of aggression and energy in the octagon in a long time (since Tito Ortiz's early days). But he is just waayyyy too inexperienced to face top Jiu-jitsu fighters like Mir. Brock was actually too aggressive and left his leg out there and he got caught. The funny thing is, Brock actually wasn't in any danger until he tried to jump out of the knee bar (which you are not going to do, I don't care who you are). If he would have just stood his ground, then he would've been fine and could have pulled right out of it after a few seconds. But the key word here is inexperience. He didn't know that.

Anyway, I don't think they are going to give Brock a can. As a matter of fact, I think he'll be headlining his next event. I don't know anything for sure, but there are talks that Brock could face Mirko Cro Cop, a top-notch striker, in his next fight (in England!) They are really trying to push Brock and they are trying to give him top-level fighters that he matches up well against. It's obvious that he's not going to fight another top BJJ fighter, as Brocks' main strength is ground and pound and that plays into a BJJ specialist's hand.

Man In Black · Anime Mod

That's fair enough, and i understand that they would put over Brock's NCAA achievements. But the way they avoided mentioning WWE and that he was a pro wrestler, along with the "action movie" lines, made me think it was a slight more than a oversight. In reality, if it wasn't for WWE no-one would have heard of Lesanr in the first place. And they didn't mention his IWGP title run for New Japan either.

The only thing I think UFC need to be careful of is not pushing Lesnar to the top too fast like WWE and Inoki did otherwise he'll just burn out and spit the dummy when things don't go his way like he has done before.

Lucky Pierre · On The Casting Couch

The ring announcer (Bruce Buffer) said during his fight introduction that he was a "Former WWE Superstar" and they made mention that Kurt Angle, Stone Cold and The Undertaker were there to support their WWE buddy so I'd hardly say they avoided mentioning it.

They didn't mention his IWGP days because, quite frankly, no one or at least a tiny tiny percentage in a US MMA audience cares. There's no way Brock will "Spit the dummy" because it's solely in his hands (and feet) this time, he can't exactly complain about going over or booking decisions.

Personally maybe a year down the line, I'd love to see Lesnar fight Josh Barnett but given Josh's relationship with Dana White I can't see that happening. BTW Josh is fighting Hidehiko Yoshida on March 5th, can't wait!!

Man In Black · Anime Mod

I was referring to the commentators during Lesnar's entrance and even the preceding video that glossed over his WWE past. That's why I found it a bit off they were going on about how he was stepping up to a legit fight then put over three other pro-wrestlers in the crowd. And I was being facetious about them not mentioning Brock's New Japan run - hence the wink!

Did you notice that Angle, Taker and Austin weren't sat together?

If Brock had won this fight, how far up the ranks would he have jumped? Immediate title contention or somewhere very close?

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

Pretty much immediate contention. Maybe one other fight against someone like Tim Sylvia, Arlovski or Brandon Vera. But then they would have thrown him to the wolves.

He's still down to headline the summer UFC event with Chuck Liddell Vs. Shogun in June.

But the UFC have obviously done a good job as I see fromt his thread alone 2 non MMA fans watched the event.

Man In Black · Anime Mod

Well, just the one match actually...

jack_jeckel · On The Casting Couch

I thought Brock came off looking great in his fight, just a little inexperienced. He really did seem like a monster in his fight and looked huge! I watched it with a group of mates, one being a huge MMA fan and even he said "fucking hell!" at Lesnars first take down.

I think if Lesnar works on his game a little more after a few more fights he will be great.

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

Thats still a start Mibbers.

I know Jack being as that was Frank Mir and not some useless can he threw him down with such relative ease and pounded his face in, anyone not at the top of their game is literally going to face 'the pain'. I would love to watch him face Sylvia. I think Tim would be in trouble very quickly.

Totoro101 · Movie Executive Producer

Iv seen a few different UFC fights but i cant really get into it, the guys are incredibly gutsy and tough but it lacks a lot of excitement and gets a little dull, for me anyway.I actually prefer K-1 which iv seen a lot more of.Getting back to the Lesner vs Mir fight, Mir only seemed to get one move on brock and that was the kneelock, but he took an incredible amount of punishment.Is tapping out the only way to win a ufc fight or can you win by knock out or such? Sorry for the silly question ^^.

Man In Black · Anime Mod

Yes I think you can win by KO and ref stoppage. I think there is also a point decision ruling like with boxing but the experts will have to confirm that.

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

You can win by:

Ref Stoppage (A ref will step in if you are unable to intellignetally able to defend yourself.)
KO
TKO (Including dangerous cuts around the eye and head area)
Submission via tap out
Verbal Tapout (Saying I quit at any point)
Points decision

Darth Mattitude · The Dark Admin

An interview with the ref of the Lesnar/Mir match.

Three days after Frank Mir defeated Brock Lesnar with a first-round submission at UFC 81, the world of MMA is still abuzz about the controversial foul and one-point deduction that aided the victory.

After scoring an early takedown and unleashing a ground-and-pound barrage, Lesnar was deducted a point for striking his opponent in the back of the head. Lesnar again took the fight to the ground after the restart, but Mir survived the onslaught to force a tap-out via knee bar at 1:30 of the first round.

Did Lesnar, in fact, strike Mir in the back of the head? Why wasnt he first issued a warning or was he? Was the fight almost stopped at any point to award Lesnar a TKO victory?

MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) today spoke to the man in charge of the fight, referee Steve Mazzagatti, to get his take on the situation.

While the veteran official and longtime fight junkie admits that he had difficulty hearing his own voice over the thunderous roars at the Mandalay Bay Events Center, he doesnt a regret a single decision he made that night. He made the right call, hes sure, and if he had the opportunity do it all over again, he wouldnt change a thing.

Mazzagatti now explains why.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Before we jump into UFC 81, can you explain your background in the sport and how you became a referee for the Nevada State Athletic Commission?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Ive actually been into the sport since it was regulated by the state athletic commissions. Ive been with the Nevada State Athletic Commission for 14 years first doing kickboxing and K-1 competitions and Muay Thai. Ive always been an MMA fan, and when they came stateside, they told me to talk to Big John (McCarthy). He mentored me. Back then, he was the only teacher around Like any martial artist, Ive been watching the UFC since the first inception. I was totally amazed. As the skill level has improved, its even more exciting. And today, its more exciting than its ever been. Im really into the technical aspect of the sport and the science of it.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Youre now a veteran official, especially with the UFC. With a fight like Lesnar vs. Mir, can you tell me how and when you end up learning that youre reffing the fight?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: We dont usually find out until we actually show up at the event. Every once in a while, Ill catch which fights Im doing on the Internet because you guys go to the commission meetings, but usually, I dont find out until I get to the show.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: So youre aware of sites like MMAjunkie.com?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI. Absolutely. I read it often. Its our job to do homework, and its how I get the latest news and know whats going on.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: What were your initial thoughts when you realized you got the Lesnar-Mir fight? Do the big-magnitude fights bring a little extra pressure?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Absolutely. When Big John left, he had been doing all the big fights, and I usually got a co-main event and the undercard fights. Wed divvy them up. When youre reffing those big fights, the ones that headline the events that people came to see, (the fans) are going to watch every little thing and analyze everything, just like the SuperBowl. A high-profile fight is going to have a lot more scrutiny and be more analyzed. Thats for sure.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Going into the fight, were there any special considerations you had or anything you knew you were going to have pay special attention to? In other words, were there things about each fighter that might make a referees job difficult?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Not really. I dont really analyze the fighters. I have a job. I look for fouls. Thats pretty much it. Thats my primary duty, whether its a huge bout or a weekend-warrior card. The only thing that might change is the level of fighters and how much punishment they can take. The guys who are early in their careers and weekend warriors arent training as professionals and arent used to taking the punishment and the punches to the face. You have A class, and B class, and C class. The UFC is A class. The C-class guys might work eight hours a day, do a little training, and then take a fight. Theyre not used to it all, so you have to be aware of that, and Im not going to let them take the punishment an A-class guy might. Otherwise, I look at all fighters equally. I dont look at strikers or grapplers or anyone differently.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: So, youre willing to give established guys someone like Mir or even Lesnar more leeway?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: I wouldnt say leeway. I would just say punishment. You just cant let the lower guys get beat up like you would an A-class guy. Look, these guys do this to make a living. My decisions affect their ability to make an income and get sponsorships and everything. I have as much responsibility in a fight as the fighters toward them winning.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: OK, onto the fight. When we spoke earlier, you mentioned that the decision to deduct Lesnar one point for strikes to the back of Mirs head was pretty clear. Can you explain?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: These fighters are extremely skilled fighters, and a grappler like Frank, thats what theyre trained to do: when you have a guy in half guard on top of you, you dont want to give the guy room to punch. So that was Mirs defense. You suck up close to (your opponents) chest, tuck yourself up under them, and that covers you from getting hit. At first, Brock started to do the right thing by winding up with the hook from behind and pushing Mirs head away from his stomach. Then you can blast him in the face but to have to worry about getting struck in the back in the head in a situation like that isnt something Frank should have had to worry about. But that was a target that presented itself to Brock.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Just to be clear, did you think the strikes were intentional?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: I dont think it was through any fault of his own. It was just there for him, so he started coming down with that hammerfist. But the back of the head is not a target you can take. And honestly, we see it all the time. A lot of people are comparing it to that the Tibau Gleison-Tyson Griffin fight earlier in the night. They were doing the exact same thing. Gleison took down Tyson, Tyson scooted up toward Gleison, and he had the opportunity to hit him (in the back of the head) but didnt take it. Instead, he moved his head out so he could get in some punches, which is what youre supposed to do.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Did you issue Lesnar a warning? Thats a big part of this whole thing, you know? Some fans think you didnt issue a warning.
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Yeah, I did. Brocks excited. Its a big, big opportunity for him, and in my opinion he looked down and saw the head there, and he took three shots at him and caught him. I jump in and say, Dont hit at the back of the head. A few more seconds go by, Mir tucks up under there again, and Brock comes down with the second couple hits to the back of the head. Thats when I jumped in and had to do my job. Thats what I saw.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: So, just to be perfectly clear, you did issue Lesner a warning before you stopped the fight and deducted a point?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Oh yeah, I did. But can you imagine the decibels in there? That was one of the fights everyone came to see. Of course, I came home and did my homework, watched the tape, and I cant hear myself give the warning. I couldnt hear myself say, Bring it on! on that beginning (either). [laughs] Thats my thing. I always shout that. If you watch the tape, you can barely even hear that.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Do you think Lesnar heard you?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: I dont know. I cant say that he heard it. I yelled it loud enough for them to hear. It was awfully loud. I yelled it, though. Ive got kids, so I know how to yell. [laughs] I used to be in a rock band, so Ive got some lungs.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: I think thats where the controversy is if there is, indeed, any controversy that some people think you never issued a warning. But youre saying its just a matter of people not hearing it, correct?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Absolutely, yeah. Let me also say that striking to the back of the head is one of my pet peeves that and grabbing the cage. The back of the head is a very dangerous spot of the body in this sport. If you were to put a RAZR cellphone right above your C-spine where it connects to your skull, thats the most dangerous part of the skull. A good, strong hit there can really hurt a fighter. Thats the part of the head that is considered illegal. Right behind the ears is not illegal. Sometimes we caution people not to hit there. Thats not necessarily a warning we just know the possibility is there. Like I said, Im just there to look for illegal techniques. And if you go back through my history, youll see that Ive deducted a lot of points for strikes to the back of the head.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Obviously, it can be easy to accidentally hit someone in the back of the head unintentionally if an opponent if flailing around. Where do you draw the line?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Accidental strikes happen. But when you look at the back of the guys head and connect, its, OK, that might be cool. He didnt mean it. Then you hit twice, and its time to start considering if youre doing it intentionally. Then the third one comes down, and thats when I jump in and say, No strikes to the back of the head! as loudly as I possibly can. Brock knows what he did. He has nothing to say about it being controversial. I dont think his corner protested at all about it. Its all left to interpretation. But was a foul committed? Yes, it was If you look at the fight several times, unfortunately, the majority of the powerful shots were to the back of the head.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Previously, you told me that Mir did what he was supposed to do and that its your job to make sure hes not penalized for that. Can you explain?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: He did what he was supposed to do under the rules hes training under thats to jump up under there. He was using a lot of skill in doing what he does. He shouldnt have had to worry about his head being hammerfisted. Unfortunately, thats what happened to him, and that forced Mir to do something he shouldnt have to, which is come out of the pocket. When he comes back out of the pocket, that allows Brock to use legal techniques but he got there by illegal means.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: So, he loses his position? Thats why you restarted them standing?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Whenever a foul is committed whether its considered intentional or unintentional we take the position away, especially if its a dominant position. Thats just the way it is and the way its always been.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: At any point in the initial exchange, did you consider stopping the fight to award Lesnar the TKO victory? Mir was taking a lot of punishment even without the shots to the back of the head.
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: No, not all. To me, Frank was doing everything right. He was doing what he needed to. He was doing what he needed to for that position. If you watch a thousand Jiu-Jitsu guys in that position, a thousand guys would do what Frank did in that position. He could have kept the position if it werent for the strikes to the back of the head. He knew what he was doing.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: So, it was a matter of Mir intelligently defending himself?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Absolutely.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: After a tough call or controversial fight like that, do you immediately meet with the commission and Keith Kizer (the NSACs executive director)?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Absolutely. Keith is really good. We go over the scores and everything we saw and heard. I spoke about that whole fight. I explained to the judges and the commission and everyone else around there the whole fight. Were constantly learning. We have a little discussion after the fight, and Im telling them everything I saw and heard.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Is this right after the fight or after the event?
STEVE MAZZAGATTI: After the event. Well, we have a quick meeting before the event too. Look, were constantly learning and evolving and discussing different ways to make sure that the fighters get a fair shake. After that event, no matter how minor a point might be, we talk about it. Thats how how were going to improve.

Taken from mmajunkie.com

Lucky Pierre · On The Casting Couch

Mazzagatti has always been a terrible official.

David McKinney · 500 Club Member

I think he's trying to cover his ass. That was a bad call, and he knows it. But nobody is going to call him out on it, especially not the UFC, because they don't want their fights to be controversial. But after reading this, the thought of a Brock/Mir rematch came into my head...